That Scary Oneness - A Response

Dear Fred,

Responding to "That Scary Oneness"

Thanks for this article this morning -- it touched a few needed spots this morning.  For me it showed me again where we are all heading -- or are there and don't fully know it.

When you said you couldn't care less about doctrine, I assume you mean in relation to Oneness - Oneness is more important than doctrine.  As one who has just completed three years getting to understand doctrine -- the right ones -- you know the ones I mean - I would not have wanted to separate doctrines quite so much, despite the fact that the Lord - as you say could touch anyone directly.

But most of us I would assume, like me, have had to get our heads right with right doctrine so we don't get led down wrong paths -- as I did for many years.  For me, getting the right doctrine has been a very stabilizing feature of my life allowing me to see how to relate to the Lord in proper ways and what I already have in Christ.  This is just an observation from me -- not meaning at all to pick on what you said.  I think I told you before I am now running a little course on these doctrines and people seem to be being helped just by understanding these things.

The other point you might teach me something if you wouldn't mind.  The reference to Thou will show thyselves pure -- and the necessity of us getting that right.
How does this fit into life and into Grubbology and all its scriptures?  Can you please tell me what I need to know about this scripture and related issues?

God bless


Dear _________,

Thanks so much for writing and I'm glad you found some stuff helpful. I'll try to answer your questions.

First of all, thank you for not taking me literally about "doctrines." Of course I both believe and teach doctrines of Christ, as the Scripture says we do. The bulk of what I have written since this past September has been my attempt to lay down a "doctrinal foundation" for what I say. Starting with "Finding Our Union with Christ," and then the piece on the Blood, then two on the Body of Jesus, ending in my version of intercession. I will add more of my two cents as we go along. So I do believe in and attempt to lay these foundations of knowledge where received.

I'm thrilled that you have found Norman & Linda & DeeDee & Sylvia & Dan & me & who knows who else to have been a help to you, so that you have found these "right" doctrines as you call them. I applaud the fact that you share them with others. Of course people are helped by the sharing of the Truth of union with Christ as we find so blatantly in the Scriptures, once the Spirit opens our eyes to see it.

Like you, I studied these things for years and from the beginning of my first "seeings" I have attempted to share these truths with anyone who would have them.

That being said, i.e., "Yes, doctrines are important," from there the goal, as I see it, is to forget them and just live your life. Who lives by a doctrine? You just live. I always use the example of marriage. Just briefly this. I may go to a thousand marriage seminars, read a thousand books on how to have a good marriage, but in the end it's just my wife and I being ourselves together in spontaneity. The oneness of marriage between the two of us just IS, and can't be whumped up by following the 10 precepts of the "How To Make Your Marriage Better" seminar. Now of course our "union doctrines" are not in the same category (let us hope).

And this may be a little hard to swallow, but nothing "fits" the doctrines out there in life. It's all jumbled up. There are no classic cases, no book-perfect scenarios. It's all in the wind. There's a tension in everything, good & evil mixed up, hot & cold, predestination & free will, heaven & earth. Sometimes one seems to predominate in a given situation over the other, hot rules cold, or the next day cold rules hot, but the tension never goes away. You see saints in sinners and sinners in saints.

Obey the law and stone the adulterous woman (because that is the law under Moses, perfectly right and legal) or release her from the penalty of her sin in compassion (and apparent disregard for sin)?

Which is right?

Jesus, quoting from Hosea 6:6, said, "But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice."

You see, the only way through the jumble and the tension between what is always two reasonable sides is seeing God in love and compassion in every subatomic particle. There is no ill will. Anywhere. That which appears as "ill will" is masking in its freedom the greater Will. And that greater Will which is over All means only Life and Loving Purpose toward Glory springing out of freedom.

All creatures are created out of God's infinite freedom and God seems to have ordained that the journey should be out of the freedom from which we were formed into the bondage, and yet enlightenment, of self-consciousness, caught in the God-purposed trap of the wicked one, in order to be finally sprung into the glorious liberty of the sons of God.

Liberty -- freedom! The cry of mankind since it found its voice. Every creature seeks its freedom. And Freedom means simply being one with what you are and do.

Here's a little theory of mine, nobody has to share it. Paul has all this "doctrine" in his letters, and a good smattering of practical advice about how to live your daily life. And a great deal of our modern "doctrine" revolves around these writings and admonitions of Paul. Paul gives the nuts and bolts, everything sort of taken apart and explained. What this means, what that means, how it will walk out.

But what do the nuts and bolts look like lived in a man? The gospels, as well as lots of the Old Testament stories, give us those examples, the premier being of course Jesus. Jesus is Paul's "doctrines" embodied.

Can you define Him? No, I don't think so. He said He lived by the Spirit, which some people would take as being flighty. Daffy. One moment He's hanging out with a bunch of Pharisees, the next over at the Publicans' & Sinners' houses. But Jesus wasn't daffy. He knew very well what He was doing. Walking in the fulness of His Father. But in the fulness of His human person at the same time. Responding to the needs of the moment in the relaxation of His own desires being those of the Father, trusting the fulness of the Spirit to manifest out of His human life.

Where I come from that takes big ones.

So I say again, the goal of our doctrinal study is to eventually drop it from the foreground of our minds, at least for ourselves (there are always those coming along that need these things), and just live our lives in the freedom and complete trust in the Lord that He is our manifested self in the world. We can obey Augustine's injunction to "love God and do what you like."

Sounds like license to some, liberty to others. Stench of death or aroma of life.

Which brings me to your last question -- about "unto the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure"

That's a can of worms, my friend. Like Jesus, I say, "according to your faith be it unto you."

That verse, and its reverse side -- "unto the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward" -- well -- I think this is a deep well.

But in a nutshell let me just say this. And it goes very much with what I said above. We live in one or another kingdom. Questions of choice, responsibility, permanence, duration, are never solved on the human level. The answers are not in any book of teaching by anyone and were never taught on any tape or preached in any sermon. Because they exist only in God Alone.

But apart from those lofty ideas, "unto the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure" simply means to me that when you begin to see All is God manifesting Himself on some level, you see at the whole foundation of everything the Love of God, and seeing that, you increasingly begin to see that everything that comes to you, or from you, is one or another form of the love of God, even if in flesh or devil disguise, and you begin from there to see that there is NOTHING that is outside His purview, thus making everything HOLY, everything PURE, since He is the basis of All, and manifests Himself and ONLY His OWN LOVE purposes in everything there is, ever was, and ever shall be.

It changes EVERYTHING to see that All is Him.

It doesn't mean that you become an idiot or blind and can't see evil when it rises up. It simply means that you see through that evil to the God Who purposed it for ultimate GOOD, "to save much people alive."

It DOES mean that you can walk in freedom because no enemies can hurt you (since there really are no enemies). Having no enemies, not even death, means you have nothing to be protective over, and therefore are a clear lantern.

How do you get that? Become that "clear lantern?"

The answer's not hard to that question, is it? He Himself is the Clear Lantern, and guarantees His Own manifestation in our MORTAL flesh, without regard to fleshly ability or committment.

Doctrine then serves its purpose, much like the law, to take us to faith, but it's finally to faith it must take us, which means doctrine pushes us beyond itself into God Who Himself is our Living Doctrine.

And I'll have to say, I do wince everytime I read the term "Grubbology" and other similar ones that others have used. Make it "John-Doe-ology!" Just as legitimate, for I'm not looking for Norman Grubb's ideas to manifest in you or me, but the Christ He preached and pointed to in all he said and wrote. I love Norman, and probably 98% of what I say is from him, but only because I have been to the mountain and seen the promised land, like MLK, can I say it's as much "Fredology" as "Grubbology" because it is MY GOSPEL, the one which has come to Life in me, by virtue of being dead & risen again in Him.

"And this is the work of God, that ye believe on Him who He hath sent."

That's it. Believe on Him. In You. As YOU! The Complete YOU, which is Him -- as YOU!

His Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God, and if children, then heirs of God ....

Christ in you and Christ in me makes us the Same Person ....

God bless,
Fred